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Teaching History of the British Isles and Wales, Scotland and Ireland


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#1 Dave Turner

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:53 AM

"the impact through time of the movement and settlement of diverse peoples to, from and within the British Isles"

we all know we should be doing this but is our approach to this just slightly tokenistic? Mine is. I would welcome any pointers towards a text, website or resource that does this well. Does anyone have the SOW or resources for a thematic unit they have put together? I would suggest that the 'History for All' report was critical of this aspect because of the lack of accessible resources. Having just had a trawl through Heinemann, Pearson and Hodder no particular publisher seems to do this yet. Any help gratefully received.

#2 HollyS

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:08 PM

I have done this as a very brief interpretations section at the moment it is not perfect but you are welcome to have a look - the bit about Wales particularly needs work.

Hollys

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#3 JenniferJames

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:38 PM

Interesting stuff Holly. Trying to look at this myself


I have done this as a very brief interpretations section at the moment it is not perfect but you are welcome to have a look - the bit about Wales particularly needs work.

Hollys



#4 Dafydd Humphreys

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 07:44 PM

It's pretty offensive to call Ireland part of the 'British Isles'... :angry:
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#5 JohnDClare

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:42 PM

It's pretty offensive to call Ireland part of the 'British Isles'... :angry:

Why?
Genuinely.
I can see that they might not want to accept that they were ever part of the United Kingdom.
But the British Isles is an accepted geographical location/group of islands.
Are they called something different in Irish atlases?

I shall google.

Ah! I see.
So what would YOU call them, Dafydd?

#6 Dafydd Humphreys

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:18 AM


It's pretty offensive to call Ireland part of the 'British Isles'... :angry:

Why?
Genuinely.
I can see that they might not want to accept that they were ever part of the United Kingdom.
But the British Isles is an accepted geographical location/group of islands.
Are they called something different in Irish atlases?

I shall google.

Ah! I see.
So what would YOU call them, Dafydd?


Norman Davies's great work terms them simply 'The Isles'. I quite like "Iona" (Isles Of the North Atlantic) though, it has a nice ring to it.

Seriously though, using 'British Isles' or 'the mainland' always betrays the anglocentric (or even unionist/imperialist) views of the speaker.
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#7 Chouan

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:55 AM

THE "British" Isles is hardly Anglocentric! If it were Anglocentric it would be something like the "English Isles". The term Britsh derives from the Priteni, a name used by the Greeks to describe the inhabitants of the British Isles, including Ireland. So how is a Greek expression Anglocentric?

#8 Dafydd Humphreys

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 08:13 AM

THE "British" Isles is hardly Anglocentric! If it were Anglocentric it would be something like the "English Isles". The term Britsh derives from the Priteni, a name used by the Greeks to describe the inhabitants of the British Isles, including Ireland. So how is a Greek expression Anglocentric?


Because language and meaning changes over the course of several thousand years.
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#9 JohnDClare

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:02 PM

I think that British is not Anglocentric by definition.
Surely Chouan is correct here: 'British' derives from Priteni (Britons), a terms which refers to the inhabitants before the English (Anglos) arrived. Those inhabitants comprised many tribes - Caledoni, Iceni, Brigantes etc. - but were collectively called 'Britons' by the people-in-power at the time.

By logic, therefore, if there are any peoples who are entitled to argue that the term 'British Isles' does not apply to them it is the English, whom the term pre-dates. The term 'Briton' was used by English writers to denote those inhabitants of the Isles who were OTHER THAN English.

I therefore find the Irish nationalist position on this ludicrous, and not a little racist. You have to hold one hell of a grudge when you are prepared to argue that the term 'British Isles' - although originally specifically excluding the English, has in fact been hijacked by the English over the ages, to the extent that you refuse now to accept the denonym 'British' on the grounds that it is too 'English'.
If we had been suggesting that we call the Isles 'The English Isles', I would have agreed that it was offensive. To suggest that 'British Isles' is offensive is to be irrational.
We could with equal validity object to the term 'Europe' on the grounds that it is too Phoenician.
And we could construct a stronger case against the denonym 'England' on the grounds that it is too Germanic.

And by the way, I personally refuse to accept the name of a tiny island off the coast of Scotland to encompass the whole archipelago, even if it does make an acronym. How's about we call ourselves Rome (Realms Off Mainland Europe)? Or Crap (Certain Random Atlantic Peoples)?

I am reminded here of how the religious, straight-laced inhabitants of the Greek island of Lesbos are sick of being Lesbians.

'The British Isles' are so-called because millennia ago, a group of tribes collectively termed 'Britons' happened to live here.
It's not quite appropriate to me as an Englishman, but - there's no need to apologise - I'll put up with it.

#10 Dave Turner

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 03:33 PM

As I started this all off, thanks Holly for the well thought out resources you have attached - more than enough quality ideas here to thematically thread through our KS3 work to keep all interested parties happy. Really interesting debate above as well - no wonder students get confused!

#11 JohnDClare

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:45 PM

As I started this all off, thanks Holly for the well thought out resources you have attached - more than enough quality ideas here to thematically thread through our KS3 work to keep all interested parties happy. Really interesting debate above as well - no wonder students get confused!

But are you going to continue to offend our Irish colleagues?

#12 HollyS

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:51 PM

I do take the point but as I am already on my 83rd time through the sow adding global dimension, community cohesion and now taking back out every child matters I probably haven't paid full attention to the wording I have used. Not even sure where this appeared to get someone so upset.
Makes me a little bit loathe to share anything when people get so angry!
HollyS

#13 JohnDClare

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 12:27 AM

I do take the point but as I am already on my 83rd time through the sow adding global dimension, community cohesion and now taking back out every child matters I probably haven't paid full attention to the wording I have used. Not even sure where this appeared to get someone so upset.
Makes me a little bit loathe to share anything when people get so angry!
HollyS

I wouldn't worry.
Who was it said: 'Publish and be damned!'
In my experience, whatever you say, there's always someone who loves it, and someone who's outraged, and - again from experience - they were always going to be wowed or outraged before they even looked at it.
When I was teaching, it was always my stance that I started talking at 8:50 and talked fairly much without ceasing until 3:30pm, and the chances of me getting through a day, never mind a week or a term, without getting one of those words wrong was virtually nil.

When it comes to critism, all criticism is useful, even negative criticism, but the Bible has it best when it says 'the wounds of a friend are better than the kisses of an enemy'.

#14 David Bryant

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:38 AM

I wouldn't worry.
Who was it said: 'Publish and be damned!'


Commonly attributed to the Duke of Wellington, I believe.

Edited by David Bryant, 07 July 2011 - 08:08 AM.


#15 Dafydd Humphreys

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:58 AM


I wouldn't worry.
Who was it said: 'Publish and be damned!'


Commonly attributed to the Duke of Wellington, I believe.


I thought it was Rebekah Wade/Brooks...
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