[mashfls]

Hey could anyone help me i am just wondering what the actual aim of the allied forces were whe General Douglas haig was in command?

[MrJohnDClare]

Historians disagree about Haig's aims.
He fought the batle of the Somme to releive the German pressure on Verdun - the French wanted him to attack on the Somme so that the Germans would have to divert troops away from their attacks on the French at Verdun.
It is quite clear that before the battle he hoped that his men would get a 'breakthrough' which would defeat the germans.
However, many other things that he write make it clear that he thought the war would go on a long time and that he would have to 'wear down' the Germans over a number of years.

So, he fought the battle of the Somme for a mixture of reasons:

Firstly (strategically) because the French asked him to attack to take some of the German pressure off Verdun.
Secondly (hopefully) because he hoped to get a bgreathough and defeat the Germans.
Thirdly (realistically) because it would be art of wearing down the German resistance.

For Haig and the Somme, look at this site - http://www.johndclare.net/wwi1.htm - and the following pages.

[ShinyRaccoon]

Well, The battle was planned for a while. Haig originally wanted the battle to take place further north or west in Flanders. But Verdun changed these plans. The aims were to Relieve the pressure at Verdun, as the heavy fighting was bringing them close to breaking point (as Germany was attempting to 'bleed France white'). Another was to gain territory. Another was to kill as many German soldiers as possible. It was originally meant to be a French attack with British support. But turned into a largely British attack. It is arguable whether these objectives were achieved.

Also, Haig was in command from 1914 and previous battles, he is just most famous for the Somme

[mashfls]

thank you

[minimin]

Why was this regarded as such a great military tragedy and why did it start?
Thanks
Mark

[Miss Buxton]

have a read of this: www.johndclare.net/wwi2.htm

[Mr. D. Bryant]

Although the website mentioned gives an idea of why the first day of the Battle of the Somme was such a tragedy, it doesn't say much as to why the Battle started. As usual, there were several reasons.

By 1916 the British Army was much bigger than at the start of the war and it was time for them to show what they could do. The French wanted the British to take a bigger part in the war on land.

The Allied generals wanted to win the war on the Western Front and they could only do that by attacking. The Battle of the Somme was a joint British-French offensive.

Most importantly, the French desperately needed help after the Germans attacked them at Verdun in February 1916.


I hope that this is helpful. Remember, the battle lasted four and a half months, not just one day. Historians are still arguing over how successful it was.

[glitterglitter]

minimin, on Sep 16 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

Why was this regarded as such a great military tragedy and why did it start?
Thanks
Mark

The point of it was to break the stalemate by attacking and take pressure away from the French who were being destroyed at Verdun.

It was great military tragedy because the plans didn't work, and weren't changed once it was realised that the preliminary bombardment hadn't worked. The German defences were underestimated, the importance of machine guns wasn't taken into account, ( again plans weren't changed). I'm sure I remember something about some generals believing this war would be like other wars, fought on horseback etc. and it wasn't. So, poor planning and failure to adapt.

The website looks great for detail on what happened and the human loss.

[Mr. D. Bryant]

Quote

I'm sure I remember something about some generals believing this war would be like other wars, fought on horseback etc. and it wasn't.

Just a slight correction. By 1916 the generals, many of whom were cavalrymen (rode on horses) rather than in the infantry (marched on foot), had worked out that horsemen couldn't charge trenches and barbed wire. However, they still hoped that if they could break through the enemy lines, then the cavalry could use their speed and mobility to destroy the enemy. They were unwilling to acknowledge that the age of the mounted soldier was over.

Also, it is important to remember that although the First World War was fought with modern weapons, communications technology was not advanced enough to give a clear picture of what was happening on the battlefield. So generals on both sides found it difficult to know what was going on during a battle.

[glitterglitter]

Mr. D. Bryant, on Sep 20 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

I'm sure I remember something about some generals believing this war would be like other wars, fought on horseback etc. and it wasn't.

Quote

Just a slight correction. By 1916 the generals, many of whom were cavalrymen (rode on horses) rather than in the infantry (marched on foot), had worked out that horsemen couldn't charge trenches and barbed wire. However, they still hoped that if they could break through the enemy lines, then the cavalry could use their speed and mobility to destroy the enemy. They were unwilling to acknowledge that the age of the mounted soldier was over.

Also, it is important to remember that although the First World War was fought with modern weapons, communications technology was not advanced enough to give a clear picture of what was happening on the battlefield. So generals on both sides found it difficult to know what was going on during a battle.

Thank you.

[the lynx2]

I also, when ding this subject last year heard something about one of the fortified sections of german trench to the north was broken into and could have been taken with reinforcements but a mix of poor communication (runners were not always reliable and could also be killed) an stubborn leadership took away this advantage.

The French during this battle had more success but could not press further onwards until the British covering thier flanks.

As for cause i also remember something about German supply routes in the area being a secondary target, but the main was, as said, to draw German forces away from Verdun.

[Mr. D. Bryant]

the lynx2, on Oct 12 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

I also, when doing this subject last year heard something about one of the fortified sections of german trench to the north was broken into and could have been taken with reinforcements but a mix of poor communication (runners were not always reliable and could also be killed) and stubborn leadership took away this advantage.

The French during this battle had more success but could not press further onwards until the British covering thier flanks.

As for cause i also remember something about German supply routes in the area being a secondary target, but the main was, as said, to draw German forces away from Verdun.

Well remembered. You may be referring to the Schwaben Redoubt, near Thiepval, where the success of the Ulster Division was not reinforced, partly because of inflexible (or 'stubborn') behaviour on the part of a British general. This is shown in the recent DVD 'The Somme: Defeat into Victory'.

Your point about the difficulty of communicating is also very important. Radios were unreliable, telephone wires were often cut, runners were a slow form of communication and could be killed, visual signals were often misunderstood.

Remember, the French had been supposed to contribute more to the Somme offensive, however Verdun led to the French effort being reduced. You are right, the more experienced French achieved more in the early phase of the battle.

Finally, the Somme did have a point, or indeed several. One was to help the French at Verdun which was achieved. Another was to capture the German railway link at Roulers, which was not.

[PhilA31]

Hello.. I'm here to seek help with my homework. It's an assessment and it's very important.
The Assessment tite is: Does Field Marshal Haig deserve to be called 'The Buthcer of the Somme'?

There's two sides of the assessment which are: Against Haig and For Haig.

Could somone please help me out!? Maybe a link or something. This would be very appreciated.


Thanks Alot

[Mr. D. Bryant]

The ever-helpful Mr.Clare has a page all about Haig on his excellent website. This should get you started.