[Iak]

We somehow managed to get onto the idea in my last history lesson of europe becoming one vast country with its own government and then each normal country with an individual sub government. And i was intrested to know peoples views and the pro's/con's for such an idea

[MrJohnDClare]

Fair topic for discussion
Isn't everyone wanting to break up/ break away nowadays - Scotland, France, Belgium, Croatia, etc. - not unite into bigger countries?

[kurisuru]

That would be what the Communists want.

I don't like the idea of it, because each European country has unique cultures and languages, and if they were united, English would become the dominant language and it would just be like a second USA.

[boberz]

Actually try one of the most renowned facists Sir Oswald Mosley he was a leading proponent of the Union movement which was very much like what you are saying. The "communists" as have been mentioned are very hard to pin down in their beliefs. ON one hand the true marixists, belief in fundemental marxist economics (producer surpluses being completely redistributed, lack of any unemployment etc...) meanwhile the communist (cough cough capitalist) chinese. I refute any statement generalising the communists.

On the debate about europe, I believ that perhaps the it couls work with the idea of decisions being made at the lowest sensible level, rather like the current principles of the european union. However it can be argued that defence would be best pooled between all nations as would a currency an idea refuted by left and right alike.

SO in my opinion great but wont happen any time soon, meanwhile our economy has become so dependent on US that only a union with them and europe is practical. Europe joined together will still be a small economic nation with only historical and cultural importance in global politics.

[Sadloku]

boberz, on Mar 19 2008, 04:38 PM, said:

Actually try one of the most renowned facists Sir Oswald Mosley he was a leading proponent of the Union movement which was very much like what you are saying. The "communists" as have been mentioned are very hard to pin down in their beliefs. ON one hand the true marixists, belief in fundemental marxist economics (producer surpluses being completely redistributed, lack of any unemployment etc...) meanwhile the communist (cough cough capitalist) chinese. I refute any statement generalising the communists.

On the debate about europe, I believ that perhaps the it couls work with the idea of decisions being made at the lowest sensible level, rather like the current principles of the european union. However it can be argued that defence would be best pooled between all nations as would a currency an idea refuted by left and right alike.

SO in my opinion great but wont happen any time soon, meanwhile our economy has become so dependent on US that only a union with them and europe is practical. Europe joined together will still be a small economic nation with only historical and cultural importance in global politics.

I live in America so its interesting 2 read about somebody being economically dependent on us when we are dependent on China,and since China so ive heard wants 2 rule the world which puts 2 light there army,navy,airforce build up all they would have 2 do is stop supplying the USA and both us and u guys in Europe would have a humongous scale deppression on our hands worse than our great deppresion by far so China waltzes in and is viewed as a savior and nobody really notices as all of the opponents in the conquered area are all killed...... ah well I guess all we can do is 2 try 2 get into a position were we can make everybody self sufficient but then another great general comes up and desides to conquer everybody and because everybodies self sufficient its going 2 b a long long war as country after country falls

[WatTyler]

We always seem to get onto this topic in history as well, one of my history teachers thinks its inevitable, in the future, no time soon though.

If you look at Germany - well the states were unified because of the economic need to do so, in order to guarentee the Zollverein. I'm not sure Europe is the same. Clearly the ties are economical, but there is little threat of countries pulling out because of the economic consequences. Also public opinion has to count for something nowadays and we're sceptical enough in England (sometimes for the wrong reasons) to make it possible. What's more an anti-europe party may be coming into power soon.

In my opinion, further integration is a good thing whether we have to relinquish some self interest or not. At the moment our economy is more closely tied with the USA's, but at some point we're going to have to come in line with Europe. It's fair enough to defend the pound for economic reasons, but some people seem to have some vague attraction to it that doesn't justify keeping it.

[MrJohnDClare]

WatTyler, on Apr 23 2008, 04:28 PM, said:

We always seem to get onto this topic in history as well, one of my history teachers thinks its inevitable, in the future, no time soon though.

If you look at Germany - well the states were unified because of the economic need to do so, in order to guarentee the Zollverein. I'm not sure Europe is the same. Clearly the ties are economical, but there is little threat of countries pulling out because of the economic consequences. Also public opinion has to count for something nowadays and we're sceptical enough in England (sometimes for the wrong reasons) to make it possible. What's more an anti-europe party may be coming into power soon.

In my opinion, further integration is a good thing whether we have to relinquish some self interest or not. At the moment our economy is more closely tied with the USA's, but at some point we're going to have to come in line with Europe. It's fair enough to defend the pound for economic reasons, but some people seem to have some vague attraction to it that doesn't justify keeping it.

This is a graet reply because - rather than just shooting his mouth off and showing his prejudices - Wat Tyler has tried to look at History and see if he can draw any conclusions.
Good post, Wat.

[Tathrim]

Quote

We are dependent on China

And yet, China is dependent on the Australian mineral reserves. The list goes on. Everyone is dependent on everybody else.


Lookibng at it from an economic perspective, A single European couintry wouldn't work, because the sheer size of the euro makes it economically unstable, just like the dollar. This is the only reason that the pound is worth more than these two currencies.

Looking even further back in to history, it wouldn't work. Both the Holy Roman Empire and the Mongol Empire (which remains the biggest empire that stayed ona single land mass) fell because they were not economically viable due to the sheer size. Rome was still too big even when it split, which caused it to crumble in to the dark ages until around tyhe 1200's

Even looking in a cultural perspective,, it wouldn't work, because of the British. Those who are undeucated in other cultures hold too many predjudices against those who are foreign, due to wars (in the case of Germany), or not even liking the food, for example.

Although, the French wouldn't like it either, looking at the recent debacle of their Eurovision entry.

[Lucy3062]

MrJohnDClare, on Sep 22 2007, 12:53 PM, said:

Fair topic for discussion
Isn't everyone wanting to break up/ break away nowadays - Scotland, France, Belgium, Croatia, etc. - not unite into bigger countries?

Yes, but the small nations which want independence (e.g. Scotland) want it within the EU. We might not have reached the phase of one country, but we already have a federal Europe with common institutions, common laws, common policies, a common legislature and courts, even though politicians won't describe it as such

[RedRevolver]

The European Union, as it exists today, is the richest and arguably most democratic system in the world today, far surpassing America.

I can only foresee, whilst I believe we need to create far stronger bonds, ties and bridges with our European neighbours opposed to trying to keep up this 'special relationship' with America, that a total abolition of borders and rid ourselves of our countries like Italy, France, Britain, Spain etc. and just be 'Europe' as being not only ridiculously stupid but totally flawed.

The EU has over 40 members - the land mass of these countries added together under one country would be massive. Look at Imperial Russia - whilst we may be richer, more democratic and more technological, we'd still have a lot of trouble keeping control of people. I imagine money would become quite centralised to the few big cities and former countries like London, Paris and Berlin. It would not be spread properly. Now, you would say, 'We'd have councils, regions, states' - if we divide a country into states, why become one country in the first place? It's a waste of money, time, effort and political mobolisation when there are so many more important things to focus on.

One of the biggest is to do what I said before - create stronger ties and move away from America.

[Crazy-Fish]

I've got a few thoughts. . .

1) Karl Marx had a very good idea when he thought up communism. I think, if we can get it to work, i.e. "all animals are equal" it would be great. If however "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others" like in the USSR and China, it would bring about catastrophe. The USSR was corrupted as soon as Lenin died, the Purges are fairly strong evidence for that.

2) One country would end up taking control. It would be like giving up our independence and becoming a colony willingly. It would probably be a tiger economy that took charge, therefore people in Britain truly would be left by the Wayside. . .

3) It would be good because there would be more trade. Co-operatives such as Cern would become more commonplace, helping the more scientifically minded people.

4) If the world economy doesn't improve, it might get so bad that a lunatic dictator gets elected and the world ends in a nuclear war. . . But then again, it may not. . .

[kaeim]

I personally like the idea of a united Europe. It's advantages would be immense, such as a great economy. It would certainly save time without having to resort to the EU for every little thing

[Crazy-Fish]

I have to admit, im not so keen on it. But then again, i dont like the french so im probably biased.. . It would be nice not to have the eu breathing down our necks.