Jump to content


Photo

New Model Army Payments.


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Coolchief123

Coolchief123
  • Student
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Shropshire
  • Interests:History:<br /><br />I got a B+ in my GCSE exam.<br /><br />Im 12 years old, in year 8.

Posted 20 January 2009 - 08:46 PM

Hello, I posted a few months ago, and now I have returned with a brilliant question that i bet none of you will know.

If you do know the right answer, please help me!.


In the New Model Army, in the English Civil War, they paid and trained farmers and general people to fight for them.

The question is.

How much would they have been paid and how often would they have been paid?


Thank you.

I hope you can help me.

#2 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:21 PM

Too easy.

I Google searched:
"New Model Amry" "rate of pay"

and then followed up this likely-looking google-book link to find out the answer

#3 Coolchief123

Coolchief123
  • Student
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Shropshire
  • Interests:History:<br /><br />I got a B+ in my GCSE exam.<br /><br />Im 12 years old, in year 8.

Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:09 AM

Too easy.

I Google searched:
"New Model Amry" "rate of pay"

and then followed up this likely-looking google-book link to find out the answer





This is the best.
Thing I have ever been on.

Thanks,
I'd better not tell you the bet we had with my teacher...

#4 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 21 January 2009 - 03:15 PM

:)
:smug:

#5 Coolchief123

Coolchief123
  • Student
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Shropshire
  • Interests:History:<br /><br />I got a B+ in my GCSE exam.<br /><br />Im 12 years old, in year 8.

Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:01 PM

Another Question.

How often were they paid.
As in,


8 pence a day,

Like teachers get 1000 pounds a month, but say they get 100 a day.

(whatever)


How OFTEN were they paid?
Daily
Monthly
Yearly.

#6 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:29 PM

Don't know off the top of my head how often they were supposed to get paid.
What I do know is that it was USUAL for armies to be months and even years in arrears.
When Edward was trying to conquer Scotland against Wallace & Co. his army was so much in arrears that the garrison in Berwick went on strike, and the soliers in his army were starving to death.
And one of the big problems at the end of the Civil War was that the army was owed so much that the Parliament was trying to renege on its promises to pay ... and that was a lot of the problem between the Palrimant and the Army afterthe war, WHATEVER you may have learned about differences in principle.

#7 Coolchief123

Coolchief123
  • Student
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Shropshire
  • Interests:History:<br /><br />I got a B+ in my GCSE exam.<br /><br />Im 12 years old, in year 8.

Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:38 AM

Don't know off the top of my head how often they were supposed to get paid.
What I do know is that it was USUAL for armies to be months and even years in arrears.
When Edward was trying to conquer Scotland against Wallace & Co. his army was so much in arrears that the garrison in Berwick went on strike, and the soliers in his army were starving to death.
And one of the big problems at the end of the Civil War was that the army was owed so much that the Parliament was trying to renege on its promises to pay ... and that was a lot of the problem between the Palrimant and the Army afterthe war, WHATEVER you may have learned about differences in principle.




I really need an answer to my question.

Thanks that helped, but i need to get the answer.
Please help!
I'll research too.

#8 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 23 January 2009 - 12:52 AM

This document details the different decisions and rulings that Parliament passed to organise the campaign against the king.

If you scroll down, An ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for raising and maintaining of Forces for the Defence of the Kingdom, under the Command of Sir Tho. Fairfax, Knight (15 Feb 1645):

Article V of this ordinance gives details of how places of pay are to be set up to disburse the moneys collected to pay the soldiers:

shall twice every Week at least, meet at such convenient Places as they shall think fit and appoint for the more speedy Execution of this Ordinance, and the said respective Committees are hereby required, and authorized at the Days and Places of their first Meetings, to divide and apportion the several Sums of Money ...

i.e. the Parliament, setting up the New Model Army, had as its aspiration to pay out the moneys 'at least twice a week'.
(It didn't, of course, and by the end of the war, they were months and months in arrears.)

Also important from your point of view, if you scroll down to Article XII, you will read this:

And be it further Ordained by the said Lords and Commons, That every Captain both of Horse and Foot, and every other Inferior and Superior Officer, or other, in the said Army, whose Pay comes to Ten Shillings a day, or above, shall take but half the Pay due to him, and shall respite the other half upon the Publick Faith, until these unnatural Wars be ended. And every Officer or other that is to have Five Shillings a day, or above, and under Ten Shillings, shall accept of the two thirds of the Pay due to him, and shall respite one third part upon the Publick Faith, until these Unnatural Wars shall be ended.

Now what this is doing is Parliament saying that - in the present crisis - they expect the officers to serve for half/two-thirds pay.
What is interesting for what YOU want to know, however, is that it shows that pay was reckoned at so-much-A-DAY.


So that is your answer:
- soldier's pay was contracted at so much a day.
- Parliament promised to pay it least twice a week.
- in the event, it was irregulalry paid, and by the end of the war the soldiers were months in arrears.


(nb if you quote the documents, cite as: "From: 'Historical Collections: The New Model Army', Historical Collections of Private Passages of State: Volume 6: 1645-47 (1722), pp. 1-23. URL: http://www.british-h...px?compid=84190 Date accessed: 22 January 2009.")


PS Thanks - that was interesting and I enjoyed finding out.
Make sure you remember to cite this forum when you present your answer to your teacher.

#9 Mr. D. Bryant

Mr. D. Bryant
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 1,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hertfordshire
  • Interests:History teacher, with special interest in military history.

Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:43 PM

In the New Model Army, in the English Civil War, they paid and trained farmers and general people to fight for them. The question is. How much would they have been paid and how often would they have been paid?


Just to add a little more to Mr. Clare's answer, there is another book by Keith Roberts, 'Cromwell's War Machine: The New Model Army, 1645-1660' (pages 98-99) which is packed full of information about the English Civil Wars. It includes a table of rates of pay. How much you were paid depended on your rank (Private Soldier, Sergeant, Captain, Colonel etc.) and whether you served in the cavalry (Horse) or Infantry (Foot). Cavalrymen usually got a lot more money than infantry. You also need to know that in those days, £1 had 240 pennies (d.), divided into 20 Shillings (S.) of 12 pence (12d) each.

So, if you were a Colonel (the man commanding a regiment of horsemen) then (in theory) you received £1.10.0 (One
Pound, 10 Shillings) a day as a Colonel, plus another £1.4.0 for being Captain of your own Troop of Horse. Whereas, Colonels of Infantry also received £1.10.0 as a Colonel, but only another 15 Shillings as Captain of a Company of Foot. Cavalry officers also received more money to pay for the feed for their horses. However, as Mr. Clare has pointed out, most officers only received part of their pay.

At the other end of the scale, an ordinary cavalry Trooper received 2 Shillings and sixpence (2/6) per day, while a Private Soldier of the Foot only got 8 Pence (8d) per day.

However, in real life, most soldiers only got a little of their pay, as most of it was taken from them to pay for food and drink, clothes, shoes, weapons and lodging.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users