[lucy36]

Hi,

I have to do an oral assignment in the form of a trial,
putting Hitler on the stand as if he had survived the war and trying to prove his guilt

We have to find specific proof that he was guilty,
and I'm having trouble finding evidence of orders he gave or things he signed,
as he was very careful with all that stuff

We have to find him guilty of the same charges his officials faced at the Nuremburg trials (conspiracy to wage aggressive war, waging aggressive war, war crimes, and crimes against humanity) and have been provided with the defences argument:

• the allies/treaty of versailles were to blame for the war-Hitler was just trying to restore Germany to it's former glory. It was Britian and Frace that declared war on Germany
  
• anti-semetic campaigns were just to gain popularity and didn't reflect Hitler's personal views
  
• Hitler wasn't aware of the actions of the SS, he only gave orders to 'solve the Jewish problem' and the other Nazi leaders decided on the methods
  
• He was unaware of the existence of the death camps. He knew the concentration camps existed but thought they were camps designed to 'accomodate' Jews and other rebels
  
• Hitler never actually killed anyone or witnessed it occuring

Can anyone help me?
Especially with finding specific evidence of his guilt, that's my main issue

Thanks!

[Mr. D. Bryant]

As you have realised, this is quite a tricky assignment. 'Intentionalist' theories of the Holocaust can run into trouble about the extent of Hitler's involvement. Such ambiguities have also been exploited by Holocaust deniers. Hopefully my better-informed colleagues can give you more detail, however to get you started...

Anti-semitism was a central plank of Nazi Party ideology. I would suggest, therefore, that it might be fruitful to have a look at the 25 Point Plan. This clearly points the way and might be usefully supplemented by quotes from Mein Kampf. This should help demolish point 2:

Quote

anti-semitic campaigns were just to gain popularity and didn't reflect Hitler's personal views

There should also be evidence from the above sources as regards Hitler's desire to wage 'aggressive war'. Indeed, his speeches might well give excellent material for you to use. Another way forward would be to have a look at the Nuremburg Trials and how the prosecutors dealt with similar points regarding such defendants as Goering. However, I am not sure if that would be regarded as 'cheating'. In connection with this, have a look at this thread. There is also information on the responsibility for war in this reply.

I hope that this helps: it sounds a really stimulating debate is in prospect.

[lucy36]

Thanks so much for your response

Yeah, I figured the Anti-Semetic point would be the easiest one to argue,
after reading some of Mein Kampf and seeing Hitler's ramblings on the topic haha
Thanks for the links, they helped a lot!

I think points 1 and 2 should be pretty simple to cover,
but it's the last three I'm struggling with,
I need to find proof that he was aware of everything happened, that he ordered it in fact,
do you know if there is any evidence of that?

[Mr. D. Bryant]

As I said, I am not an expert on this so I am still hoping that someone with a greater depth of knowledge will be able to help. I will put a call out on the History Teachers' forum to see if anyone can give you some more information. On this point:

Quote

Hitler never actually killed anyone or witnessed it occuring

it should be easy to argue that if someone creates an anti-semitic dictatorship of which a key objective is the solution of the so-called 'Jewish problem' then that person is just as guilty, if not more so than the man who pulls the trigger. Himmler did witness at least one killing but apparently found it too upsetting.

[glitterglitter]

"Specific evidence of his guilt"?

He was the Fuhrer, the Leader. The buck stops with him. It was his his responsibility to be aware of everything that was happening under his wonderful Reich. If you can't pin 'specifics' on him then you can pin him with the blame of not being in control.

I'm quite sure that once you laid bare ALL the things that were going on that poor wee Hitler knew nothing about, he would be laughed out of court and into prison by laying flat ALL the things his friends were up to, that they couldn't have done without his agreement somewhere.

Just because his name isn't on documents doesn't alleviate him of guilt. I would destroy the opposition's argument that 'he never know what was going on' as ridiculous.

On a separate note, does anyone else think it a bit weird that teachers are allowed to devote time to a 'prove Hitler was guilty' debate? I realise Historians have to prove and question, but still ... I personally think the Government should ban promoting Revisionist ideas in school as much as racist views etc are banned.

[Mr. D. Bryant]

glitterglitter, on Oct 20 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

On a separate note, does anyone else think it a bit weird that teachers are allowed to devote time to a 'prove Hitler was guilty' debate? I realise Historians have to prove and question, but still ... I personally think the Government should ban promoting Revisionist ideas in school as much as racist views etc are banned.

I don't think that this teacher was promoting revisionist ideas. The exercise is presumably linked to the 'Intentionalist/Structuralist' debate about the nature of the Holocaust. As such it is an interesting way of helping students understand this argument.

You are quite right that teachers have to be very careful about how they present ideas in the classroom. However, examining the ideas of, for example, Holocaust deniers, when handled carefully, is not the same thing as promoting Revisionist theories. This subject has featured quite recently on the Teachers' Forum on this thread.

Thank you for your continued help on this, and other, subjects.

[MrJohnDClare]

There is no order, signed by Hitler, ordering the genocide.

Confirmed 'sightings', as they say, however, do exist:

• The order forcing Jews to leave their homes and going into 'Jewish' areas was signed by Hitler on 30 April 1939. This is not a genocide order, of course, but it does disprove two denier claims: it proves that Hitler DID want to persecute the Jews because they were Jews, and it proves that he wanted to do so BEFORE the war (the persecution was not, as the deniers claim, a response to the outbreak of war).
  
• Hitler DID sign an order (dated 1 September 1939) allowing Reichsleiter Bouhler to investigate the construction of a gassing apparatus 'to administer to incurably sick persons a mercy death'.
  
• In February 1941, there was a meeting at Hitler's HQ about the possibility of transporting all the Jews to Madagascar. Hitler told the assembled officials and officers that he had supported this idea, but that developments - the acquisition of millions of Jews in the conquered countires - were forcing him to revise his ideas, and not in a friendly way.
  
• In July 1941, Hans Frank told his officials that Hitler had preomised him that the area of Poland under his control would be 'the first territory to be free of Jews'. Some officials wondered if this was possible, because many Jews were 'German citizens'; could action be taken legally against german citizens? The question was put to Hitler who replied that the matter was not an issue because 'he is of the opinion that after the war there would not be any Jews left in Germany anyhow'.
  
• One day, towards the end of summer, Heydrich told Eichmann: 'the Fuhrer has ordere the physical annhilation of the Jews'.
  
• At the start of the war, Hitler gave a speech in which he prophecied that - if the jews forced a war on germany - 'the consequecne will be the annhilation of the Jewish race in Eruope'. On 30 September 1942 he gave another speech, saying '"There was a time when the Jews in Germany also laughed at my prophecies. I do not know whether they are still laughing today, or whether they have been cured of laughter. But take my word for it: they will stop laughing everywhere, and I shall be right also in that prophecy."
  
• On 29 December 1942 Himmler reported to Hitler that 363,211 Jews had been shot in the Ukraine, South Russia and Bialystock - so Hitler KNEW, and he didn't order the killings to stop.

Of course, there are also dozens of statements by Hitler that he wanted and intended to destroy the Jews: see this webpage.