[Cyfer]

Hello, sorry this isn't that much on the topic of history, more on writing.

Increasingly, I find with novels, short stories and essays that I write that I waste too much time thinking over them. My friend can write a page in under 10 minutes. I think over it and am lucky to write a page in an hour because I think so much.

With so much work now I really need a solution to this. I've tried writing down whatever comes to my haed by usually I have to think (for novels) of the storyline, plot before I write it down and how to phrase each paragraph.

I desperately need help.

~Cyf

[MrJohnDClare]

This is a strange thing because when it comes to logical argument, you write huge amounts with great facility.

So is this just a 'creative writing' thing?

Is it ALL creative writing (description, imaginary letters, diaries, narrative stories etc.), or just stories?

I teach English, so I will try to advise, but you need to know that I am very like you in this respect.
I can create huge amounts of writing at the drop of a hat, because I just write down my thoughts as I think them.
But when it comes to a genuinely creative piece of writing, I can draft and redraft for literally hours - it was the word processor which made a writer of me; it was unbearable when one had to copy it out again and again by hand - at least now I can edit onscreen!

However, when I am 'creating', I still tend to bash out the thing quickly and throughtlessly 'at a run', and then go back to edit it is when it exists in some form.


One thing you need to try to learn how to do is to be able to 'drop in' to your essay the mark-scoring techniques:

• Rhetorical question
  
• Tricolon
  
• Colloquialisms
  
• Adjectives and Adverbs
  
• Lists of details separated by commas
  
• Sensory detail (see, hear, smell, taste, touch)
  
• Personification
  
• Onomatopoeia
  
• Alliteration
  
• Hyperbole
  
• Punctuation . , ? ! () “” : ;
  
• Complex sentences/Subordinate clauses for atmosphere and setting the scene; followed by short sentences for excitenmetn and impact.
  
• Connectives (then, with, so, because, although, which)
  
• Discourse markers (firstly, secondly, similarly, by contrast, therefore, consequently)

To a large degree, as far as your school English work is concerned, the teacher isn't really concerned with your STORY as such, but they ARE interested in the way you write it.


PS

Quote

How to continuously write

Don't split your infinitives!

[Cyfer]

MrJohnDClare, on Nov 11 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

This is a strange thing because when it comes to logical argument, you write huge amounts with great facility.

So is this just a 'creative writing' thing?

Is it ALL creative writing (description, imaginary letters, diaries, narrative stories etc.), or just stories?

I teach English, so I will try to advise, but you need to know that I am very like you in this respect.
I can create huge amounts of writing at the drop of a hat, because I just write down my thoughts as I think them.
But when it comes to a genuinely creative piece of writing, I can draft and redraft for literally hours - it was the word processor which made a writer of me; it was unbearable when one had to copy it out again and again by hand - at least now I can edit onscreen!

However, when I am 'creating', I still tend to bash out the thing quickly and throughtlessly 'at a run', and then go back to edit it is when it exists in some form.


One thing you need to try to learn how to do is to be able to 'drop in' to your essay the mark-scoring techniques:

• Rhetorical question
  
• Tricolon
  
• Colloquialisms
  
• Adjectives and Adverbs
  
• Lists of details separated by commas
  
• Sensory detail (see, hear, smell, taste, touch)
  
• Personification
  
• Onomatopoeia
  
• Alliteration
  
• Hyperbole
  
• Punctuation . , ? ! () “” : ;
  
• Complex sentences/Subordinate clauses for atmosphere and setting the scene; followed by short sentences for excitenmetn and impact.
  
• Connectives (then, with, so, because, although, which)
  
• Discourse markers (firstly, secondly, similarly, by contrast, therefore, consequently)

To a large degree, as far as your school English work is concerned, the teacher isn't really concerned with your STORY as such, but they ARE interested in the way you write it.


PS

Quote

How to continuously write

Don't split your infinitives!

That's what I find so hard. Going at that rush. I just seems that I can't get the thoughts fast enough to write them but if I take it slowly I can get great quality pieces of creative writing.
I think ultimately it's just down to practice, and boy do I need to practice this. I'm going to enter the NanoWrimo competition with my friend next year. I think

Thank you for all those tips by the way! I haven't thought of using tricolons (nor did I know the word for it ). Rhetorical questions I use when needed and effectively, as well as adverbs and adjectives all the way to alliteration (which I find I am using quite a bit these days, just trying to manipulate the words).I use hyperboles, not so sure about it but I'll remember to check for next time. I use correct puncuation, connectives and discourse markers.

As I try to use characters as fully as I can and to know them as well as I can I try to mutate what they say to their accent (mutate is a bit rough but I've already used manipulate ^^) which is colloquialism I think....


I find that creative writing is at it's most exciting in the most boring of circumstances, for instance having a train journey!


Wikipedia giving me the split infinitive debate but since you're a teacher I'll respect your opinion and go with it. Thank you for informing me about that.

~Cyf

[Cyfer]

Oh yes on another note I need to ask if you know of two words which I used to know and now have forgetten

1) A personification but instead of relating to a person it relates to an animal or machine
2) An assumption of sorts...

[Cyfer]

Please excuse me for the double post but since you are indeed a History teacher (and there are no good English help forums apart from one that you get answers within 3-4 days...) I would like to ask you a few more questions.

I just got my first level 7 today (this year) and since our charts of what to do in each level only go up to 7 I have no idea of how to improve my work. (this is for reading). If you are familiar with this marking scheme please inform me. If not I'll type out the required things for a level 7 (got it after 3 pieces I worked very hard for...finally! )

~Cyf

[MrJohnDClare]

Cyfer, on Nov 11 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

Oh yes on another note I need to ask if you know of two words which I used to know and now have forgetten

1) A personification but instead of relating to a person it relates to an animal or machine

anthropomorphism?

Quote

2) An assumption of sorts...

??? dunno

Brilliant that you remembered these too!
And also irony, sarcasm, satire - ie hidden meaning

[MrJohnDClare]

Cyfer, on Nov 11 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

Please excuse me for the double post but since you are indeed a History teacher (and there are no good English help forums apart from one that you get answers within 3-4 days...) I would like to ask you a few more questions.

I just got my first level 7 today (this year) and since our charts of what to do in each level only go up to 7 I have no idea of how to improve my work. (this is for reading). If you are familiar with this marking scheme please inform me. If not I'll type out the required things for a level 7 (got it after 3 pieces I worked very hard for...finally! )

~Cyf

Oh well done - delighted!

Keep up the good progress.

What you want to know is the subject attainment targets:

Writing:
Level 8
Pupils' writing shows the selection of specific features or expressions to convey particular effects and to interest the reader. Narrative writing shows control of characters, events and settings, and shows variety in structure. Nonfiction writing is coherent and gives clear points of view. The use of vocabulary and grammar enables fine distinctions to be made or emphasis achieved. Writing shows a clear grasp of the use of punctuation and paragraphing.

Exceptional performance
Pupils' writing has shape and impact and shows control of a range of styles maintaining the interest of the reader throughout. Narratives use structure as well as vocabulary for a range of imaginative effects, and nonfiction is coherent, reasoned and persuasive. A variety of grammatical constructions and punctuation is used accurately and appropriately and with sensitivity. Paragraphs are well constructed and linked in order to clarify the organisation of the writing as a whole.

Reading
Level 8
Pupils' response is shown in their appreciation of, and comment on, a range of texts, and they evaluate how authors achieve their effects through the use of linguistic, structural and presentational devices. They select and analyse information and ideas, and comment on how these are conveyed in different texts.

Exceptional performance
Pupils confidently sustain their responses to a demanding range of texts, developing their ideas and referring in detail to aspects of language, structure and presentation. They make apt and careful comparison between texts, including consideration of audience, purpose and form. They identify and analyse argument, opinion and alternative interpretations, making cross-references where appropriate.


Speaking and Listening
Level 8
Pupils maintain and develop their talk purposefully in a range of contexts. They structure what they say clearly, using apt vocabulary and appropriate intonation and emphasis. They make a range of contributions which show that they have listened perceptively and are sensitive to the development of discussion. They show confident use of standard English in a range of situations, adapting as necessary.

Exceptional performance
Pupils select and use structures, styles and registers appropriately in a range of contexts, varying their vocabulary and expression confidently for a range of purposes. They initiate and sustain discussion through the sensitive use of a variety of contributions. They take a leading role in discussion and listen with concentration and understanding to varied and complex speech. They show assured and fluent use of standard English in a range of situations and for a variety of purposes.

[Cyfer]

MrJohnDClare, on Nov 11 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

Oh well done - delighted!

Keep up the good progress.

What you want to know is the subject attainment targets:

Writing:
Level 8
Pupils' writing shows the selection of specific features or expressions to convey particular effects and to interest the reader. Narrative writing shows control of characters, events and settings, and shows variety in structure. Nonfiction writing is coherent and gives clear points of view. The use of vocabulary and grammar enables fine distinctions to be made or emphasis achieved. Writing shows a clear grasp of the use of punctuation and paragraphing.

Exceptional performance
Pupils' writing has shape and impact and shows control of a range of styles maintaining the interest of the reader throughout. Narratives use structure as well as vocabulary for a range of imaginative effects, and nonfiction is coherent, reasoned and persuasive. A variety of grammatical constructions and punctuation is used accurately and appropriately and with sensitivity. Paragraphs are well constructed and linked in order to clarify the organisation of the writing as a whole.

Reading
Level 8
Pupils' response is shown in their appreciation of, and comment on, a range of texts, and they evaluate how authors achieve their effects through the use of linguistic, structural and presentational devices. They select and analyse information and ideas, and comment on how these are conveyed in different texts.

Exceptional performance
Pupils confidently sustain their responses to a demanding range of texts, developing their ideas and referring in detail to aspects of language, structure and presentation. They make apt and careful comparison between texts, including consideration of audience, purpose and form. They identify and analyse argument, opinion and alternative interpretations, making cross-references where appropriate.


Speaking and Listening
Level 8
Pupils maintain and develop their talk purposefully in a range of contexts. They structure what they say clearly, using apt vocabulary and appropriate intonation and emphasis. They make a range of contributions which show that they have listened perceptively and are sensitive to the development of discussion. They show confident use of standard English in a range of situations, adapting as necessary.

Exceptional performance
Pupils select and use structures, styles and registers appropriately in a range of contexts, varying their vocabulary and expression confidently for a range of purposes. They initiate and sustain discussion through the sensitive use of a variety of contributions. They take a leading role in discussion and listen with concentration and understanding to varied and complex speech. They show assured and fluent use of standard English in a range of situations and for a variety of purposes.

I can't wait to move onto creative writing, my persuasive speeches are definitely things I need to work on.

For the reading task I've just done we were studying a short story of Sherlock Holmes by Conan Doyle and I've taken a very risky path by including my opinion of his use of the word 'hubbub' since it's a homo-gram/nym (the hyphon is just so you can see where I forgot which one of the two endings it was).
Including the consideration of an audience, definitely something I need to work on but with some texts the audience is just so wide. What about things that are aimed at children but adults enjoy? I'll refrain from making a rude joke here

By cross-reference do you mean that you link it to other parts of the story? I've done that several times but only in the best of my compositions. What do you mean by presentational devices. Use of things like ellipses?

Thanks for the great info. Hopefully I'll be able to achieve these by the end of the year.

~Cyf

[Mr. D. Bryant]

Cyfer, on Nov 10 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

Hello, sorry this isn't that much on the topic of history, more on writing.
Increasingly, I find with novels, short stories and essays that I write that I waste too much time thinking over them. My friend can write a page in under 10 minutes. I think over it and am lucky to write a page in an hour because I think so much.
With so much work now I really need a solution to this. I've tried writing down whatever comes to my haed by usually I have to think (for novels) of the storyline, plot before I write it down and how to phrase each paragraph.
I desperately need help.
~Cyf

Actually, attainment is History is often closely linked to attainment in English. This is particularly the case when (not if, hopefully) you study A-Level History, as the ability to write clearly and cogently will be very important.

Secondly, although your predicament may be frustrating, have you considered that one of the reasons your writing takes longer may be that you edit as you write, rather than afterwards? I think you may find it interesting to have a look at how earlier writers have refined and edited their prose and poetry. Not being an English teacher I don't have any links for this sort of thing. However, I know that Wilfred Owen, for example, spent a lot of time refining the first drafts of some of his poems, as well as receiving help from Siegfried Sassoon.

[glitterglitter]

How to write continuously???

Hey Cyfer! Methinks I know what you're really up to lmao! Mr JDC said you were the second most prolific student poster. Now that I've looked up prolific I just know that oor wee Cyfer is out to be number one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck! Normally I am like sooo competitive but I'm just too busy right now

[MrJohnDClare]

glitterglitter, on Nov 11 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Hey Cyfer! Methinks I know what you're really up to lmao! Mr JDC said you were the second most prolific student poster. Now that I've looked up prolific I just know that oor wee Cyfer is out to be number one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck! Normally I am like sooo competitive but I'm just too busy right now

And of course, GlitterGlitter, this little non-history post is not a wicked scheme to notch up another post to your own total???

And don';t try denying it, because any denial post will just draw forth an accusation that you are simply clocking up MORE unnecessary posts!!!

[Cyfer]

Mr. D. Bryant, on Nov 11 2009, 10:23 PM, said:

Actually, attainment is History is often closely linked to attainment in English. This is particularly the case when (not if, hopefully) you study A-Level History, as the ability to write clearly and cogently will be very important.

Secondly, although your predicament may be frustrating, have you considered that one of the reasons your writing takes longer may be that you edit as you write, rather than afterwards? I think you may find it interesting to have a look at how earlier writers have refined and edited their prose and poetry. Not being an English teacher I don't have any links for this sort of thing. However, I know that Wilfred Owen, for example, spent a lot of time refining the first drafts of some of his poems, as well as receiving help from Siegfried Sassoon.

It's not that I edit it during the thing it's just that during writing the piece I meticulously go over every single sentence, think about it and analyze it, considering all other possibilities and if they will enhance my writing. What do you think about my risky use of an opinion in my reading task?

I really need to keep on trying to break out of that habit.

MrJohnDClare, on Nov 12 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

glitterglitter, on Nov 11 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

Hey Cyfer! Methinks I know what you're really up to lmao! Mr JDC said you were the second most prolific student poster. Now that I've looked up prolific I just know that oor wee Cyfer is out to be number one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck! Normally I am like sooo competitive but I'm just too busy right now

And of course, GlitterGlitter, this little non-history post is not a wicked scheme to notch up another post to your own total???

And don';t try denying it, because any denial post will just draw forth an accusation that you are simply clocking up MORE unnecessary posts!!!

2nd place is not enough. I need to go all the way!!!!

^^ The help here is really good here, thank you to Mr JDC, Mr D. Bryant and glitterglitter.



Sorry this is very very off topic but I need to ask it. Should I keep my head in the clouds?
What I mean by this is in about every subject I don't bother with the normal curriculum since it's so easy; I know it fairly well (enough to get around 95% each time) but I don't know it for 100% since I basically reach for the stars constantly. I've got my physics teachers and maths teachers researching themselves (Lol, since they teach A-Level) out of interest of my questions, in English I get outstanding marks in class, far above anyone else but in exams I tend to degenerate and doing so many ridiculous mistakes.

So should I keep on doing this? I mean I'll study the topics for GCSE and revise but now I've got good enough marks for me to choose any GCSE I want so what's the point of staying to the curriculum? It's just boring.


~Cyf

[MrJohnDClare]

Cyfer, on Nov 12 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

So should I keep on doing this? I mean I'll study the topics for GCSE and revise but now I've got good enough marks for me to choose any GCSE I want so what's the point of staying to the curriculum? It's just boring.

Don't go so far off piste that you fail to get the grades you need to get to the next stage.
So, you may need to get certain SATs to get ointo the GCSE courses you want (???); of so, you need to do enough to get at least the minimum.
Similarly, you will need to get minimum GCSEs to get to the 6th form College you want on the A-level courses you want, and you certainly have to get certain grades at A level to get to thew University you want to get the course you want.

So you do what you NEED to get what you need.


The other thing, my son found, was that if you are clever, you can make up a lot of ground in the last couple of months if you just give revision your WHOLE self.

[Cyfer]

MrJohnDClare, on Nov 12 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

Cyfer, on Nov 12 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

So should I keep on doing this? I mean I'll study the topics for GCSE and revise but now I've got good enough marks for me to choose any GCSE I want so what's the point of staying to the curriculum? It's just boring.

Don't go so far off piste that you fail to get the grades you need to get to the next stage.
So, you may need to get certain SATs to get ointo the GCSE courses you want (???); of so, you need to do enough to get at least the minimum.
Similarly, you will need to get minimum GCSEs to get to the 6th form College you want on the A-level courses you want, and you certainly have to get certain grades at A level to get to thew University you want to get the course you want.

So you do what you NEED to get what you need.


The other thing, my son found, was that if you are clever, you can make up a lot of ground in the last couple of months if you just give revision your WHOLE self.

Oh no, the GCSE's I'm absolutely dedicating myself to. I'm also taking as many as possible and even doing french (hopefully) this year so I can take more GCSEs next year.

My school only allows 4 optional ones. Apart from the set ones and triple or double science. I could do more, if only they gave me the choice.


Basically my school will allow people to do GCSEs based on two exams. The one I just did and the one I'll do in a term. This one I got the highest in every subject in my class apart from maths (bleh, stupid mistakes) and spanish. And in spanish I was beaten by a hispanic boy who got 1% more than me.

I don't get sidetracked so much that I start failing so I can't pick GCSEs and from the second my GCSEs start I'll be trying to habituate myself into a very rigid and extremely hard routine (why I mentioned habituate) which will hopefully pay off.


I'm definitely not screwing up on my GCSEs, I say tihs with absolute conviction and I wholly mean it. I will do anything physically and mentally possible for me to get the best marks in GCSE and A-Level while maintaining that extra streak which you need to get into uni (my godmothers husband who is now a consultant and used to go to camrbidge gave me a huge talk on this and is prepared to stage whole mock interviews with him, I'm extremely lucky)

[Cyfer]

ooh ermmm hrmmm....

just noticed the 'conveyed in different texts.'

does this mean I'll have to read other novels by the same author and comment on the difference?