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Greatest Battle


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#1 Cyfer

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 12:25 AM

Just a quick question.

Does anybody know a battle where the greatest odds were succeeded? I'm not talking about 300,000 men passing by a group of scouts but more like the battle of Alesia (I believe it was 17:1) or Thermopylae (not sure of the odds)

I mean this in terms of odds, not in terms of how many present but in how many killed.

This all stems from interest after I've recently heard about the battle of Wizna, where the Polish (~720 men) held a bunker for 3 days against a ~72200 strong German army for three days with kills at 40:1 (Polish having 40 for each man killed).

Have there been any greater odds?

Battles may be from any point in history as long as we can vaguely tell (to the nearest half-thousand) the amount of men present on each side.

#2 MrJohnDClare

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:54 AM

Dunno - googled this.

#3 Cyfer

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:12 AM

The death odds in that battle were only 28:1. Although I do agree that must have been incredible.

#4 Demetrius Vadavostok

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 10:03 PM

Gideon, in the book of Judges, started with 32,000 men. God selected 300 of these men.
So the 300 Israelites then fought 135,000 Midianites.
Ratio 450:1
Date c.1129 BC

But there's better still.

Samson killed 1000 philistines with one donkey's jaw bone.
Ratio 1000:1
Date c.1090 BC

The point is these men had faith and strength in and from God.
Nothing is impossible with faith in God.

#5 poland first to fight

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:18 PM

Gideon, in the book of Judges, started with 32,000 men. God selected 300 of these men.
So the 300 Israelites then fought 135,000 Midianites.
Ratio 450:1
Date c.1129 BC

But there's better still.

Samson killed 1000 philistines with one donkey's jaw bone.
Ratio 1000:1
Date c.1090 BC

The point is these men had faith and strength in and from God.
Nothing is impossible with faith in God.


Can you please give me the exact location of where does it say so in the Bible?
PS:I agree with you in the fact that nothing is impossible with the faith in God.

#6 poland first to fight

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:41 PM

Just a quick question.

Does anybody know a battle where the greatest odds were succeeded? I'm not talking about 300,000 men passing by a group of scouts but more like the battle of Alesia (I believe it was 17:1) or Thermopylae (not sure of the odds)

I mean this in terms of odds, not in terms of how many present but in how many killed.

This all stems from interest after I've recently heard about the battle of Wizna, where the Polish (~720 men) held a bunker for 3 days against a ~72200 strong German army for three days with kills at 40:1 (Polish having 40 for each man killed).

Have there been any greater odds?

Battles may be from any point in history as long as we can vaguely tell (to the nearest half-thousand) the amount of men present on each side.


Well, I would like to remind you that 40:1 wasn't the amount of soldiers that died on each side but the amount of soldiers that were fighting in the battle. 40:1 means that 1 Polish soldier had to face 40 German soldiers. In addition to that I would like to say that all the sources that I found on internet say that Germany had around 40 thousand soldiers, not 70 thousands.

#7 Demetrius Vadavostok

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 06:07 PM

Can you please give me the exact location of where does it say so in the Bible?
PS:I agree with you in the fact that nothing is impossible with the faith in God


Judges 7:7 and 8:10 tell us this in the Bible.

#8 Cyfer

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:54 PM

To Poland First to fight: I guess we have seen different sources. Such battles were usually not documented very well.

To Demetris: .... some may say that the bible may 'exaggerate' certain things

#9 poland first to fight

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:22 PM

Well, I've got 2 great battles from Polish-Lithuanian history.

Firstly, battle of Kircholm with 100 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers whom died comparing to Swedish casualties (KIA) of 5000-9000.

Secondly, battle of Beresteczko (Biggest battle of 17th century) with 700 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers dead against overwhelming amount of 40 000-70 000 of Cossack troops.

#10 Cyfer

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:31 PM

Well, I've got 2 great battles from Polish-Lithuanian history.

Firstly, battle of Kircholm with 100 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers whom died comparing to Swedish casualties (KIA) of 5000-9000.

Secondly, battle of Beresteczko (Biggest battle of 17th century) with 700 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers dead against overwhelming amount of 40 000-70 000 of Cossack troops.


Thinking back on this, I'm not sure whether a kill count can truly be justified. Nor any way in which a battle can be measured.

There are coup d'etats which may be of tactical genius or just ridiculous number advantages.

For example, wikipedia says that in the Battle of Kircholm the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth used expertly trained winged hussars (one of the great cavalry forces pre-firearm era). So did this amazing kill count come about as incompetence, numbers mean nothing of course when one side has years of training, whilst the other has a group of peasants in tarnished armour.

I am now of the opinion this topic should be dropped and I was foolish in posting it.

#11 Andrew W

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 12:44 AM

Gideon, in the book of Judges, started with 32,000 men. God selected 300 of these men.
So the 300 Israelites then fought 135,000 Midianites.
Ratio 450:1
Date c.1129 BC

But there's better still.

Samson killed 1000 philistines with one donkey's jaw bone.
Ratio 1000:1
Date c.1090 BC

The point is these men had faith and strength in and from God.
Nothing is impossible with faith in God.


I would recommend against relying on the bible for historical facts. Like other ancient writers, it is probable that figures are unreliable or even made up (Thermopylae is similarly difficult, as whilst the battle was faced by 300 Spartans, recounts of the story ignore that they often took several of their helots with them into battle. They could have numbered in the thousands rather than the hundreds).

Also, the bible is very difficult to support with any evidence and therefore isn't considered a reliable historical text. Bear in mind a committee in the age of Constantine actually decided what did and didn't make the final cut, and various translations and writing styles make it very difficult to understand whether accounts are history or parable. On top of all that, the bible frequently contradicts itself.

Take the various loaves and fishes stories as an example (besides, it's not a particularly impressive story. If you want to find enough food to feed 5,000 people, just give a toddler a yoghurt).

#12 poland first to fight

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:17 PM

 

Well, I've got 2 great battles from Polish-Lithuanian history.

Firstly, battle of Kircholm with 100 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers whom died comparing to Swedish casualties (KIA) of 5000-9000.

Secondly, battle of Beresteczko (Biggest battle of 17th century) with 700 Polish-Lithuanian soldiers dead against overwhelming amount of 40 000-70 000 of Cossack troops.


Thinking back on this, I'm not sure whether a kill count can truly be justified. Nor any way in which a battle can be measured.

There are coup d'etats which may be of tactical genius or just ridiculous number advantages.

For example, wikipedia says that in the Battle of Kircholm the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth used expertly trained winged hussars (one of the great cavalry forces pre-firearm era). So did this amazing kill count come about as incompetence, numbers mean nothing of course when one side has years of training, whilst the other has a group of peasants in tarnished armour.

I am now of the opinion this topic should be dropped and I was foolish in posting it.

 

 

I wouldn't call Swedish army a group of peasants. It probably was a good example of typical western army.

 

And Hussars weren't from pre-firearm era. Evolution of firearms was not the reason for why Hussars went out of favour. It wasn't until second part of 19th century when Infantry was actually capable of fighting off cavalry with firepower only. 






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