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Oliver Cromwell: Hero Or Villain


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#31 Kryptic

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:09 PM

MrJohnDClare you are greater than Cromwell im my books you really helped me out i was totally stuck. I hand my essay in on Tuesday and get it back on Thursday and i have a felling i will get a very good mark which will put me into a better pathway for my GCSE's therefore enabling me to learn more getting me a better gcse mark getting me a higher paid job and a better LIFE. THANKYOU AGAIN MrJohnDClare :D

#32 Owlie...

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:12 PM

Ah, well, I'm afraid I got a bit passionate and did some research.

Cromwell did follow some of the rules about waging war as written in the Just war doctrines. I would assume his reasoning was that if he was fighting 'God's War' then he might as well do it according to the big man (deity..?) himself.
I did most of my research by reading books from my local library about the Just War and the ethics of Medieval and Tudor/Stuart warmongering. A fair number of them did actually pertain to Cromwell and his use of the rules while fighting his own battles. In one (can't remember which, exactly :huh:) there is a whole chapter devoted to him, and whether his tactics would actually be fair as seen from the point of the medieval scholars and generals who drew up and followed the doctrines.

Thanks for your help, you really did get me to think about this topic!

#33 Mr. D. Bryant

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:53 PM

MrJohnDClare you are greater than Cromwell im my books you really helped me out i was totally stuck. I hand my essay in on Tuesday and get it back on Thursday and i have a felling i will get a very good mark which will put me into a better pathway for my GCSE's therefore enabling me to learn more getting me a better gcse mark getting me a higher paid job and a better LIFE. THANKYOU AGAIN MrJohnDClare :D


What a lovely way to say thank you. I am sure Mr. Clare will be delighted that you found his advice so helpful.

#34 Mr. D. Bryant

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:54 PM

Ah, well, I'm afraid I got a bit passionate and did some research.
...
Thanks for your help, you really did get me to think about this topic!


Marvellous. There can surely be no greater tribute to Mr. Clare than the fact you went out and did your own research to find the answers you needed. Well done.

#35 luck

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:23 AM

I need someone to read my essay on Cromwell hero or villian.
Please email me [address deleted] if you can help me

Thanks

#36 MrJohnDClare

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:02 PM

I need someone to read my essay on Cromwell hero or villian.
Please email me [address deleted] if you can help me

Thanks

wo things here, luck:
Firstly, we do not allow members to post their email address openly in the forum = too dangerous. At the danger of being alarmist, there are paedohpiles out there cruising round children's sites looking for an opening. You should NEVER share your email address with people you do not know.

Secondly, unfortunately, we do not approve of getting other people to proof/mark your essay. Do your best, then give it to your teacher to evaluate - he is best placed to assess your work.

Sorry to be useless for you!!!
:rolleyes:

#37 luck

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:39 PM

Hi

The teacher wants at least 3 people to read over your essay. for spelling grammer and information

What i really need to make sure is i have a good thesis statement which i am confused at.
I could you a bit of help?

I touched on the new army
Excution of charles
Attack on Ireland
End of rump parliment
Bring the Jews back to england

HeroVsVillian I believe he is a Hero
And a conclusion

Did i miss anything?
Any help would be great!

#38 MrJohnDClare

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 06:40 PM

The teacher wants at least 3 people to read over your essay. for spelling grammer and information

Ah! I see now. However, I'm afraid we don't do that on the forum for you.

What i really need to make sure is i have a good thesis statement which i am confused at.
I could you a bit of help?

I touched on the new army
Excution of charles
Attack on Ireland
End of rump parliment
Bring the Jews back to england

I realise these are your points. You may have expressed yourself too briefly, but they seemed a little confused to me.
If I were writing this essay I would write it in three parts:

1. Thesis Statement
I would start off by explaining that many historians believe that Cromwell was a hero. There are LOADS of ideas (lots more than in your list ) here.

2. Antithesis Statement
Then I would say that, on the other hand, there are lots of historians who believe that he was a villain. There are LOADS of ideas (again, lots more than in your list) here.

3. Conclusion
'HeroVsVillian I believe he is a Hero' IS your conclusion - all you would need to do would be to explain why you chose hero rather tha villains (a 'because...' sentence).
And a conclusion

#39 DanEIRE

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:39 PM

True!! I have found quite a lot on why cromwell was a hero but not for why he was a villain can you help me??

Well!
I think I'm the wrong person to start telling you why Cromwell was a villain because I totally reckon him!
However, points that might be made by stupid, misguided people who mistakenly THINK he was a villain include:
1. He was a regicide (he signed the order that put Charles I to death)
2. He dismissed the 'Rump' of the Long Parliament
3. He took over tyrannical rule of the country, appointing himself Lord Protector
4. He ruled the country through Major Generals (ie a military dictatorship)
5. He introduced laws to enforce Puritan morality (e.g. restricting dancing, Christmas celebrations etc.)
6. He put to death some Levellers (who wanted the ordinary man to have the vote)
7. he put down the Irish rebellion with great brutality, including the masscares of Drogheda and Wexford.


Sorry, but can I just ask why you failed to mention the banishment of up to 100,000 irish men, women, and children to north america and the west indies. This was cromwells way of dealing with his 'gypsie problem'. Surely this fact should be taken into account while trying to decide whether he is indeed a villain or a hero?

#40 MrJohnDClare

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:25 PM

Sorry, but can I just ask why you failed to mention the banishment of up to 100,000 irish men, women, and children to north america and the west indies. This was cromwells way of dealing with his 'gypsie problem'. Surely this fact should be taken into account while trying to decide whether he is indeed a villain or a hero?

What an excellent point, and thank you for bringing it up.
Readers can find more detail about the accusation here.

Is it true?
Well, it may well be - Cromwell lost no love for the Irish Catholics.
Beware of numbers, especially in the thousands; remember that BOTH sides had reason to exaggerate - cromwell to demonstrate how successfully he was eradicating the Irish, the irish to show what a rotter he was. Personally, I find it hard to believe that he killed half a million Catholics (the entire population of Ireland was less than 1.5 million), which would make him about as successful as the Nazis 'Final Solution' - most imporbably, given the differences in communications and technology. I have seen estimates of the numbers sent as slaves as low as 10,000 - even that is a lot of ships at a time when we didn't own anywhere in the West Indies.
You also need to be careful about interpolating-back modern values. We may not see much of a difference, but 'indentured' IS different to 'slave', and the treatment of the Irish needs to be seen in the light of what English people were doing to black Africans and their own poor people, and contrasted to what was happening to enemies on the continent during the 30 Years' War.

But, if I were trying to blacken Cromwell's name, I would CERTAINLY throw this at him! Thank you very much for your contribution to the debate.

#41 jazzyjoules

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:48 PM

hello,
thank you so much for starting this thread! It's really helping me.
i can see the many reasons for each side but can anyone explain to me please how theese reasons made cromwell either good or bad. (eg. cromwell was a hero/villan for signing charles' death warrant. Why did this make him a hero/villan??? Why was charles so bad/good? etc.) Thanks so much. it would be really helpful if someone could help me today (preferably!) I'd be really grateful!!!

#42 Mr. D. Bryant

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:04 PM

hello,
thank you so much for starting this thread! It's really helping me.
i can see the many reasons for each side but can anyone explain to me please how theese reasons made cromwell either good or bad. (eg. cromwell was a hero/villan for signing charles' death warrant. Why did this make him a hero/villan??? Why was charles so bad/good? etc.) Thanks so much. it would be really helpful if someone could help me today (preferably!) I'd be really grateful!!!


Well, really it's a question of reading through the posts in this thread, seeing what they say and making your own mind up. For example, if you think King Charles was in danger of becoming too powerful, then Cromwell helping to beat him in the English Civil War was a good thing. However, if you think that King Charles' trial wasn't fair and neither was executing him, then that would be a bad thing for Cromwell to have done.

There are lots of different aspects to Cromwell being a 'hero' or a 'villain'; including political, religious, military (was he a great war leader, for example?). In some parts of Ireland he is definitely seen as a villain (see a recent post above). Ultimately, you need to show you have considered both sides and come to a conclusion, ideally explaining why you made that decision.

Good luck.

#43 jazzyjoules

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:12 PM


hello,
thank you so much for starting this thread! It's really helping me.
i can see the many reasons for each side but can anyone explain to me please how theese reasons made cromwell either good or bad. (eg. cromwell was a hero/villan for signing charles' death warrant. Why did this make him a hero/villan??? Why was charles so bad/good? etc.) Thanks so much. it would be really helpful if someone could help me today (preferably!) I'd be really grateful!!!


Well, really it's a question of reading through the posts in this thread, seeing what they say and making your own mind up. For example, if you think King Charles was in danger of becoming too powerful, then Cromwell helping to beat him in the English Civil War was a good thing. However, if you think that King Charles' trial wasn't fair and neither was executing him, then that would be a bad thing for Cromwell to have done.

There are lots of different aspects to Cromwell being a 'hero' or a 'villain'; including political, religious, military (was he a great war leader, for example?). In some parts of Ireland he is definitely seen as a villain (see a recent post above). Ultimately, you need to show you have considered both sides and come to a conclusion, ideally explaining why you made that decision.

Good luck.

Brilliant! thank-you so much! Thanks for repling so quickly too :)

#44 Mr. D. Bryant

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:32 PM

Brilliant! thank-you so much! Thanks for repling so quickly too :)


No problem. I happened to check the board just after you posted; we don't always answer that quickly! Glad the reply was helpful. Thank you for being so polite.

#45 Starfish

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:13 PM

HELP!!!
I hav found lots of reasons why Oliver Cromwell is a hero and a villian
but I dont know wat he is overall!!!? :blink: pleaze can you give me a
hint or ur opion! :D Thanx




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