Jump to content


Photo

Oliver Cromwell: Hero Or Villain


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#1 balloon_creature

balloon_creature
  • Student
  • 2 posts

Posted 21 April 2004 - 08:22 PM

;) I have plenty of issues and evidence to show he was a villain but I'm struggling to find ones for him being a hero (this is for a essay) Help will b greatly appreciated :D

#2 Mrs Faithorn

Mrs Faithorn
  • Moderating Teacher
  • 2,803 posts

Posted 21 April 2004 - 09:15 PM

Just to let you know that I have deleted the other (almost identical message) that you posted.

There is a good article Cromwell: Hero or Villain on the BBC website that should help with both aspects of your question.

This page also attempts a balanced view of Cromwell, but has information and ideas you could use for the 'hero' side of your argument.

I'm sure you realise that whether Cromwell was a 'hero' or not very much depends on your interpretation of the things that he did. For example, to some people both in the C17th and nowadays the fact that he signed Charles I's death warrant makes Cromwell a hero (because he abolished the monarchy); to others this same action makes Cromwell a villain.

#3 Mr Field

Mr Field

    Administrator

  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 1,391 posts

Posted 21 April 2004 - 10:07 PM

... and if you have broadband, this interview with an expert will give you lots (and lots) of ideas:
http://localheroes.d...al/cromwell/02/

#4 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 23 April 2004 - 12:44 AM

12 Reasons Cromwell is a HERO

Oliver Cromwell is my hero, so here's some things he did that are great:
1. He substantially won the Civil War, when the rest of the Parliamentary commanders - posh, half-baked lords - would have lost it.
2. He set up the New Model Army which has to be one of the best armies the world has ever known - merciless and motivated fighters.
3. He could be ruthless when needed (eg against the Levellers, and at Drogheda and Wexford). Nowadays, in our politically-correct, wishy-washy liberal society, everybody goes 'ooo no, what a nasty man - he is the 'British Stalin'' at this. But AT THE TIME that was what people responded to (compare what was happening in France and Spain at the same time). The result was that England and Ireland HAD PEACE, because of Cromwell. Only someone of immense strength and imposing character could have FORCED such a warlike situation into peace.
4. He absolutely wopped the Scots AND the Irish - always a crowd-pleaser.
5. He pushed through the execution of the king, thus getting rid of a TOTAL TYRANT and establishing in English politics that a king CANNOT be absolute. Thus we owe our democracy to him - he is sometimes called 'the daddy of democracy'. How's about that for a hero?.
6. He threw out the old corrupt Rump Parliament in 1653. Everybody agrees that they deserved it. He really tried to establish a 'righteous' parliament in its place (eg the Barebone's Parliament).
7. He refused the crown when it was offered him - he genuinely did not want power for power's sake - just to get ENGLAND safely through this troubled period. Decent guy.
8. He abolished bear-baiting, and punished drunkenness. Perhaps he went too far for our tastes nowadays (he also abolished dancing, Christmas and the theatre) but this is what godly people wanted in those days. He was just trying to make people be good by the lights of the time.
9. He allowed Jews to return to start living in England, and allowed them religious toleration. He allowed everybody else to believe what they wanted - in their own homes - this was religious toleration way ahead of its time.
10. He built up the British navy - this was the real start of England's naval supremacy.
11. He captured Jamaica from the Spanish - and thus began the British Empire.
12. He was a good, decent family man, who enjoyed a joke and was kind to his children, and he always spent the day in prayer before he did any really outrageous thing. When he had lords to a meal, he would let them eat for so long - after which he would bang a drum, at which the ordinary soldiers were allowed to come in and take anything they wanted off the table.

#5 Mrs Faithorn

Mrs Faithorn
  • Moderating Teacher
  • 2,803 posts

Posted 23 April 2004 - 12:57 AM

Ahem!

As I said before, (in effect) "One man's hero is another man's villain." !!

Let's hope this gets your class having a lively debate on the topic, balloon_creature. :)

#6 kwan

kwan
  • Student
  • 13 posts

Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:14 PM

how many teachers are there?

#7 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 22 February 2009 - 11:02 PM

Do you mean on this forum?

There are a lot of teachers who are able to be moderators.
In practice, however, most of the answers tend to be made by a group of about half a dozen.

#8 jennzie

jennzie
  • Student
  • 77 posts

Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:22 PM

Oliver Cromwell was a hero for some reasons:
like at first the parliament with oliver cromwell as head and the king army went to war, in the first war between them Oliver cromwell and his army lost. so then oliver cromwell decided to imrove the army, and he did this by training the army harder and getting better armour; this was called the new model army. Because of the new model army Cromwell has created they won the second war.
because they won Cromwell had to chose what to do with the losing team, and so he chose for King Charles to be executed, and so he was. after that Cromwell became Lord protector (as he didnt want to get the title as king, as then people would rebel against him, as charles the second was meant to be next to the throne once his father died). he did get offered the job of being king but refused for that reason.
some people thought he was a hero for certain things he done while he was lord protector, however some think he is a villian, one reason is:
he and his troops landed in ireland and killed catholics there as he was a protestant- he killed many children and women and tortured lots he thought he was doing the right thing, as he heard that the catholics in ireland cut off people hand and feet, so he thought that by doing this he will give them what they deserve...

i hope this helps, but if you need more info on this topic, i am more than happy to help..
i have studied this topic for history last term so i know alot, so i dont mind going in depths if you want
good luck
bye

jennzie

#9 JAK R34

JAK R34
  • Student
  • 4 posts

Posted 22 March 2009 - 06:40 PM

i am doin a project on oliver cromwell and i dont kno wot 2 put down 4 hero i hav sum stuff for villain but not alot 4 hero any info will b gr8 fanks. :)

#10 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:46 PM

i am doin a project on oliver cromwell and i dont kno wot 2 put down 4 hero i hav sum stuff for villain but not alot 4 hero any info will b gr8 fanks. :)

All you need to d is to actually read this thread - there's LOADS of stuff, especially this post.


(PS, there is no need to post again and again; when you post, one of the moderators has to OK your post before it goes 'live' - and then they usually answer it.)

#11 jennzie

jennzie
  • Student
  • 77 posts

Posted 24 March 2009 - 08:49 PM

i am doin a project on oliver cromwell and i dont kno wot 2 put down 4 hero i hav sum stuff for villain but not alot 4 hero any info will b gr8 fanks. :)

All you need to d is to actually read this thread - there's LOADS of stuff, especially this post.


(PS, there is no need to post again and again; when you post, one of the moderators has to OK your post before it goes 'live' - and then they usually answer it.)


you can check out what i wrote, and if it is not enough, get back to me and i will try to help

#12 MaccaPacca

MaccaPacca
  • Student
  • 2 posts

Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:18 PM

Ahem!

As I said before, (in effect) "One man's hero is another man's villain." !!


True!! I hav found quite a lot on why cromwell was a hero but not for why he was a villain can you help me??

#13 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 19 January 2010 - 09:13 PM

True!! I have found quite a lot on why cromwell was a hero but not for why he was a villain can you help me??

Well!
I think I'm the wrong person to start telling you why Cromwell was a villain because I totally reckon him!
However, points that might be made by stupid, misguided people who mistakenly THINK he was a villain include:
1. He was a regicide (he signed the order that put Charles I to death)
2. He dismissed the 'Rump' of the Long Parliament
3. He took over tyrannical rule of the country, appointing himself Lord Protector
4. He ruled the country through Major Generals (ie a military dictatorship)
5. He introduced laws to enforce Puritan morality (e.g. restricting dancing, Christmas celebrations etc.)
6. He put to death some Levellers (who wanted the ordinary man to have the vote)
7. he put down the Irish rebellion with great brutality, including the masscares of Drogheda and Wexford.

#14 connie

connie
  • Student
  • 1 posts

Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:27 PM

ive read all the replys but i just dont have a claue how to put all the quotes together for my conclusion in my essay :unsure: help me plz


cheers


#15 MrJohnDClare

MrJohnDClare
  • Moderating Teacher & Admin
  • 5,342 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:County Durham

Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

ive read all the replys but i just dont have a claue how to put all the quotes together for my conclusion in my essay :unsure: help me plz

Start off by writing the sentence: 'Some historians say that Cromewll was a VILLAIN. They argue that...' Then write as much as you can about all the ideas people say to prove that Cromwell was a bad'un. Try to include facts as well as ideas.

Next, write this sentence: 'HOWEVER, some historians say that Cromwell was a HERO. They say this:...' Then write as much as you can about all the ideas people say to prove that Cromwell was wonderful. Try to include facts as well as ideas.

Finally, write this sentence: 'Having looked at both sides of the debate, I believe that Cromwell was...' Then say what you think and what convinced you.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users